Curse

Personette · Mar 28, 2007, 09:23 AM // 09:23

Fair does not mean that everybody walks away happy.

I remember the days when I thought it did. I was about 12.

Manic Smile · Mar 28, 2007, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Raiser

If he wasn't worth the gems, you don't need him. If you didn't bother because you wouldn't use him after the end of the game, you don't need him. I had a great time getting Razah, I only got him for my main character but it was a nice feeling of accomplishment. Yay we get our gems back, so what, they are worth half of what they used to be.

I think it is great ArenaNet is sticking to pleasing the people who wont take the time to work for something like this. If you think it is grind, don't get him, you don't need him for anything and it is easy to do everything with the other heroes. It is easy to get 80k (or whatever it is now) if you work for it (and don't give me any $hi7 about how a casual player can't get 80k, you can if you commit to it, even with only 20min a day.). You really don't need him on all of your characters.

I'm fine with a change like this, but I hate to see it being changed because people were whining about it being too hard. I could see whining about DoA being hard, yeah it is a pain in the a$$. Yeah I could see people complaining about it being too hard to acquire the gems without buying them.

Anyway, at least they will return gems and the people who worked for him (yeah, getting the money to buy him counts as "working for him") wont just get a slap in the face.

EDIT: Btw, if you can only play for 20min-1hour or so (as in, you are a casual player) you defiantly don't need him.

if you want to be an elitist asshole go play another MMO...guildwars was created for that 20min to 1hr gamer...

frankly DOA was boring and hard...hard an fun I'd do it, fun and easy I'd definately do it, boring and easy and at least it's over quick

and I hope you weren't one of those who's whining resulted in the new philosophy for GW2 cause that'd just make you an asshole and a hypocrite

Retribution X · Mar 28, 2007, 01:10 PM // 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Raiser

He was supposed to be a challenge, a bonus for those who could get him...He is a challenge.

Ok, Then why arn't the Acoylate's really hard to get?

Why is FoW armor more expensive? Skin. It has absolutly no utilitarian value. Razah does. Razah is my favorite profession, but he costs more than my 15k armor sets. Guild Wars isn't Grind Wars. If it's not utlitarian in function, They have it hard to get, as a status symbol. IE: A max sword isn't hard to get. Axes and hammers may be easier, but does that mean swords should be insanely hard to obtain?

So why should razah be so hard to get? The quest is harder than any other hero gaining quest. but add 80-100K costs, wow. just wow.

Exoudeous · Mar 28, 2007, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Raiser

I'm immature because I support Bush, yet many do not? No. I simply don't see it their way, and refuse to follow the crowd like sheep. Same thing with this, I don't support the majority, so I'm immature? No. Don't say someone is immature because they do not see your point of view.

did i say anything about the majority. there were many people in this thread that said they didnt like it without having to be a kid about it, that is what im talking about. Its not your opinion, its the way you choose to go about expressing it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Raiser

Uh, I was referring to him saying (don't remember his exact post) that all other heroes are free to recruit (as in, cheaper. Which is where my comment came in for FoW being most expensive ), not the fact that he is the only Ritualist hero.

way to dodge the topic at hand and miss the point at the same time. There is no cheap alterative to having a rit hero which is why razah shouldnt be so hard to get, unless they added another rit hero. Fissure armor is a diffrent story, because its only a diffrent skin and has the same stats as normal armor which is available to casual players and those who cant afford the expensive skins.

Seraphic Divinity · Mar 28, 2007, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

WOW so Anet finally made something easier to get AND managed to keep everyone happy by refunding the difference to them! How about we apply this state of mind to, like, say, making all Fissure of Woe armor insigniable? Yes, I'm aware that probably isn't a word, but I don't care. That would be awesome.

OMG
<_< >_>
I know this is a bit off-topic... but... /SIGNED

<_< >_>

Phoenix Ex · Mar 28, 2007, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarcinJ13

Hi.

I'm the minority ... blah blah blah .... could sell gemstones .... blah blah blah .... Now everyone has one ... blah blah blah .... It is no longer something elite.

So I am disapointed. But I wish best of luck to every player who wasn't good enough to get him in earlier (it means all those who wrote "Yeah! Great Job ANet!").

People will get Rit hench. Others will get gemstones back. There is Hard Mode comming. New minipet is introduced every few hours....... and I'm still waiting for "International" Titles.

KOiBD (Kind Of Ignored By Developers)

As much as I don't like the attitude, I kind of agree. I am sick of only having FoW armor and like 2 weapons that are truly special, or "elite" as you called it, and even those are ridiculously easy to get as it is. I felt the "this game is for casual so if you have time go F**K off" mood quite a while ago....how hard is it to just add in a pink long sword, or crystalline with lightning, a plasma looking sword or a flashing aura armor, and put them in NPC for 10 million or something...even in the cosmetic department I feel KOiBD

, at least let me parade my minipet set if I pay 10k for 10 minute or something.

Hopefully GW2 will correct that, but I'm having doubts.

Hell Raiser · Mar 28, 2007, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic Smile

if you want to be an elitist asshole go play another MMO...guildwars was created for that 20min to 1hr gamer...

frankly DOA was boring and hard...hard an fun I'd do it, fun and easy I'd definately do it, boring and easy and at least it's over quick

and I hope you weren't one of those who's whining resulted in the new philosophy for GW2 cause that'd just make you an asshole and a hypocrite

Not sure what this "new philosophy for GW2" is, so I don't think I was...

Guild Wars was created for the casual gamer. The primaries are easy to complete playing casually, DoA, Razah, other elite missions, titles etc. are all secondary bonuses. It is easy to get on for 20min and have fun, Guild Wars is no longer anywhere near free of grind, though, it is everywhere (see below for examples). I have never been in a DoA group, it is MY CHOICE. It is a bonus area.

Do not call me an "elitist asshole" because I feel some things should be worked for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retribution X

Ok, Then why arn't the Acoylate's really hard to get?

Why is FoW armor more expensive? Skin. It has absolutly no utilitarian value. Razah does. Razah is my favorite profession, but he costs more than my 15k armor sets. Guild Wars isn't Grind Wars. If it's not utlitarian in function, They have it hard to get, as a status symbol. IE: A max sword isn't hard to get. Axes and hammers may be easier, but does that mean swords should be insanely hard to obtain?

So why should razah be so hard to get? The quest is harder than any other hero gaining quest. but add 80-100K costs, wow. just wow.

How many times do I have to say it, he is hard to get because he was supposed to be a challenge. Not sure what "why arn't the Acoylate's really hard to get?" means....

Guild Wars has become full of Grind, DoA is nothing but grind, same with the other elite missions. Sunspear points, and Faction points are required grind (Sunspear isn't required for foreign chars anymore, though). Getting FoW armor and 15k armor sets has grind. Almost all of the titles require grind. So don't tell me it isn't "Grind Wars" because it is everywhere, there is just minimal grind through the primaries, Razah is not a primary.

olly123 · Mar 28, 2007, 06:29 PM // 18:29

its a nice find but a shame i jsut got all the gems for him today, after farming foundry for 4 days straignt i finaly completed it and got 3 drops for me. so thats 1 of each and 3 titan. at least i can make myself some money. i like this update, tho i think Razah should b a challange, he still is with that hard missson. but atleast hes free. why should u have to pay for him unlike every other hero? not every one cant spend 4- hours on the trot gatting gem stones its a bugger i know that

jbwarrior · Mar 28, 2007, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Whooohooo... GG Gaile, now I get my gemstones back... YES

The Ernada · Mar 28, 2007, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Raiser

How many times do I have to say it, he is hard to get because he was supposed to be a challenge. .

And you continue to miss the point over and over and over again. Or you're just ignoring it on purpose because you dont have an argument against it.

Razah is the ONLY ritualist hero. Why should he be some "elite" hero that's more expensive than most sets of armor and weapons to get? While he isnt quite a "must have" (nothing in the game truly is) he is part of the gameplay the way the other heroes and henchies are.

As others have pointed out and you conveniantly ignore time and time again, if there were another Ritualist hero to get, then this wouldnt have been a problem. But no, you keep insisting on being selfish just so you can hold on to your fragile ego boosting elite status.

Seriously, I groan whenever people make "But he's no longer elite because everyone has it" statments. I've done the same accomplishments, so big freaking deal. Let others have their fun too, eh?

Akshara · Mar 28, 2007, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Quote:

Razah is not a primary

As one who invested a couple hundred hours into a Ritualist primary character, I simply don't agree with this. Fortunately, Anet doesn't either.

Though not a core profession, Ritualist is a primary profession. Having a Ritualist hero is not an unnecessary bonus, anymore than having a Monk hero is. I bought Nightfall specifically for the heroes feature, and felt that a large percentage of my personal investment in time and plat spent unlocking skills for the Ritualist wasn't appropriately recognized by Nightfall.

Remember how during Factions, we who were focused more on PvE were having somewhat of a hard time, and how we felt that PvE as a whole was being ignored? Nightfall offered much as a direct response to this, but then didn't reward those who played Factions PvE as a Ritualist.

What really irks me is that one has to play through the entire Nightfall campaign before getting the Ritualist at all. Getting the Paragon late makes sense, because of the storyline and because it is a Nightfall profession. But if one wants to play through Factions PvE with a new character and a Ritualist hero (/sigh, would be a lot of fun), they've got to stop playing the storyline and go through the entire Nightfall campaign, then return to Factions storyline, blowing the continuity.

My vote is to make the quest to get Razah available at the same point as Zenmai and Olias - at least once he's been unlocked in PvE. That way we could use him with Factions and Prophecies characters without needing to play through Nightfall several times over.

Kali Magdalene · Mar 28, 2007, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Raiser

Not sure what this "new philosophy for GW2" is, so I don't think I was...

Guild Wars was created for the casual gamer. The primaries are easy to complete playing casually, DoA, Razah, other elite missions, titles etc. are all secondary bonuses. It is easy to get on for 20min and have fun, Guild Wars is no longer anywhere near free of grind, though, it is everywhere (see below for examples). I have never been in a DoA group, it is MY CHOICE. It is a bonus area.

Do not call me an "elitist asshole" because I feel some things should be worked for.

Why do you feel that Razah should be worked for? His only distinguishing feature is that his primary profession is ritualist.

I don't think there is a reason to having such a barrier to getting him beyond "that's how it was done until now."

Quote:

How many times do I have to say it, he is hard to get because he was supposed to be a challenge. Not sure what "why arn't the Acoylate's really hard to get?" means....

Guild Wars has become full of Grind, DoA is nothing but grind, same with the other elite missions. Sunspear points, and Faction points are required grind (Sunspear isn't required for foreign chars anymore, though). Getting FoW armor and 15k armor sets has grind. Almost all of the titles require grind. So don't tell me it isn't "Grind Wars" because it is everywhere, there is just minimal grind through the primaries, Razah is not a primary.

But Razah is not replaceable any other way. Most "elite" items are variations on stuff you can already get, but looks prettier or more interesting. A tormented sword won't ever do more damage than a long sword I have crafted or get from a collector, it just looks different from any other sword you can get.

Obviously, making Razah a challenge didn't work, unless you think that sweeping Pongmei Valley and Xaquang Skyway (or wherever you prefer) a few dozen times is somehow challenging. Being able to save 80 platinum to pay for the gemstones doesn't show anyone that you're l33t or awesome. It shows you can farm. Sure, some people do go into the DoA to get their Razah the hard way, but how can you really separate them from the people who just farm?

What's so important about Razah being hard to get?

Bryant Again · Mar 28, 2007, 09:11 PM // 21:11

And how come Razah was a pain in the ass to get, and getting Zenmai was easy?

I can make this comparison because they're both not "primaries", as if it matters.

minex · Mar 28, 2007, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic Smile

if you want to be an elitist asshole go play another MMO...guildwars was created for that 20min to 1hr gamer...

...and you could play that 20 minutes to 1 hour of Guild Wars without Razah.

Kali Magdalene · Mar 28, 2007, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by minex

...and you could play that 20 minutes to 1 hour of Guild Wars without Razah.

And you can play it without Koss or Dunkoro, too. What's your point?

MSecorsky · Mar 28, 2007, 10:29 PM // 22:29

It doesn’t really matter who doesn’t like this… it’s going to happen, and I’m going to get Razah. Then, to top it off, I’m going to find out who doesn’t like it, find their favorite restaurants and buy Razah an expensive dinner there. When you walk in Razah and I will wave once, then ignore you, and after we eat and have a bottle of wine we’ll skip out the door arm in arm giggling while you think about the way things used to be, when Razah was all yours.

Yes, I find this whole line of argument to be rather silly.

Hell Raiser · Mar 28, 2007, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by minex

and you could play that 20 minutes to 1 hour of Guild Wars without Razah.

Yup, that is exactly my point. Besides there is a ton of things throughout Guild Wars that can't be played in 20min to an hour.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akshara

As one who invested several hundred hours into a Ritualist primary character, I simply don't agree with this. Fortunately, Anet doesn't either.

Though not a core profession, Ritualist is a primary profession.

You entirely missed my point, I meant the Razah quest isn't a primary

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Raiser

there is just minimal grind through the primaries

this is referring to primary quests, not professions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

And how come Razah was a pain in the ass to get, and getting Zenmai was easy?

I can make this comparison because they're both not "primaries", as if it matters.

And how come it is so much easier to go outside of ToA and kill a Bog Skale than to go to DoA and kill a Margonite?

Neither of them are primaries, yet it is so much easier to kill a Bog Skale. Of course it matters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ernada

And you continue to miss the point over and over and over again. Or you're just ignoring it on purpose because you dont have an argument against it.

Razah is the ONLY ritualist hero. Why should he be some "elite" hero that's more expensive than most sets of armor and weapons to get? While he isnt quite a "must have" (nothing in the game truly is) he is part of the gameplay the way the other heroes and henchies are.

As others have pointed out and you conveniantly ignore time and time again, if there were another Ritualist hero to get, then this wouldnt have been a problem. But no, you keep insisting on being selfish just so you can hold on to your fragile ego boosting elite status.

Seriously, I groan whenever people make "But he's no longer elite because everyone has it" statments. I've done the same accomplishments, so big freaking deal. Let others have their fun too, eh?

I never said "But he's no longer elite because everyone has it".

Yes it still would have been a problem if there was another Ritualist hero, someone would find a way to complain about how a hero should not cost money. Someone will always find a way to complain.

Razah wasn't even here before DoA, nobody seemed to have trouble doing anything without him. So just because he is available he should be easy to get? Having Razah doesn't make the team better than one who doesn't, he just offers a different option.

"While he isnt quite a "must have" (nothing in the game truly is) he is part of the gameplay the way the other heroes and henchies are." So because an Elite Skill is part of game play but I can't get to it unless I get to RoT they should have to put it on Istan? Any skill that I can't get until a later part of the game for that matter. While an Elite Skill may not be the best comparison, the view stays the same, anything that requires work and money should be handed to you if it is part of game play? No work required?

Skills significantly enhance game play, Razah may also. Razah or ZB? I would take ZB, thank you (yeah that is my opinion, others may take Razah. If you would take Razah over ZB, think of a skill that would enhance your game play).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kali Magdalene

But Razah is not replaceable any other way.

He may not be replaceable with a Ritualist Hero, but you can replace him with anything. Just like you would when he wasn't around, just like you would when Heroes were not around. He is replaceable with a different profession, but people see something new or different, and want it.

minex · Mar 28, 2007, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Raiser

Razah wasn't even here before DoA, nobody seemed to have trouble doing anything without him. So just because he is available he should be easy to get? Having Razah doesn't make the team better than one who doesn't, he just offers a different option.

Exactly. However, I'm having a hard time finding PuG's (or any groups for that matter) who will let Razah into the party. In one group, I wanted to add him as a healer just to mix things up. The leader told me to drop the rit and add a monk. I resisted saying that Razah will heal just fine. Next thing I know, he drops me. *shrug*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kali Magdalene

And you can play it without Koss or Dunkoro, too. What's your point?

At least we're equal here because I entirely missed the point of your post too.

Kali Magdalene · Mar 28, 2007, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Raiser

He may not be replaceable with a Ritualist Hero, but you can replace him with anything. Just like you would when he wasn't around, just like you would when Heroes were not around. He is replaceable with a different profession, but people see something new or different, and want it.

You could have stopped with the bolded text, as everything you say after has no relevance. He's not replaceable with a ritualist hero, full stop, end of sentence. That alone is reason for him to be accessible to anyone.

I don't necessarily want Razah because he's new or different. I want Razah because like necromancer, monk, and elementalist, ritualist is one of most thoroughly unlocked professions on my account. I can't give any non-Rit hero my favorite rit builds as they rely on spawning power skills.

The Ernada · Mar 28, 2007, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Raiser

Yes it still would have been a problem if there was another Ritualist hero, someone would find a way to complain about how a hero should not cost money. Someone will always find a way to complain.

Yes. There will always be a complainer. Take your posts for instance. So what's your point?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Raiser

Razah wasn't even here before DoA, nobody seemed to have trouble doing anything without him. So just because he is available he should be easy to get? Having Razah doesn't make the team better than one who doesn't, he just offers a different option.

And just because others will get Razah more easily doesnt change how your team works. The only thing it changes is how your precious Razah is no longer elite to you.

Sorry but giving people more options and utility far outweighs your need to feel special.